The Guide

Often there are those who are eager to remove the splinters from the eyes of others without removing the beams from their own eyes first. 

Perhaps the person is not controlled by the "guide" but instead by his or her own mind, will, emotions and thoughts.

Since we sometimes hear little about the Holy Spirit I include here a teaching with references about the Holy Spirit and His work.

The Holy Spirit is a person, an equal part of the Godhood.

    A. The Spirit has personal characteristics.
      1. He has intelligence (1 Cor.2:10-11).
      2. He has emotions (Eph.4:30 – “Do not grieve the Holy Spirit”).
      3. He has will (1 Cor.2:11).
    B. The Spirit acts in personal ways.
      1. He teaches us (John 14:26).
      2. He commands (Acts 8:29).
      3. He intercedes for us in prayer (Rom.8:26).

II. The deity of the Holy Spirit
    A. He has the names and titles of deity.
      1. Yahweh – What the Lord (Yahweh) said in Is.6:8-13
       is ascribed to the Holy Spirit in Acts 28:25.
      2. Spirit of God (Rom.8:9,14; 1 Cor.2:11; 12:3; Eph.4:30)
    B. He possesses incommunicable attributes.
      1. Self-existence (Rom.8:2)
      2. Omnipresence (Ps.139:7 ff)
    C. He performs incommunicable works (no one but God can do them).
      1. Creation (Gen.1:2)
      2. Resurrection (Rom.8:11)
    D. He is equated with deity.
      1. Acts 5:3,4 – a lie to Spirit equals lie to God
      2. 2 Cor.3:17,18 – “The Lord is the Spirit”
III. The Holy Spirit’s role prior to the Church Age
    A. He took part in creation (Gen.1:2; Job 33:4Psalm 104:30).
    B. He guided and protected Israel (Isaiah 63:10-14).
    C. He spoke through prophets to produce Scripture
     (1 Peter 1:112 Peter 1:20,21).
    D. He selectively and conditionally indwelt certain people
     in the Old Testament (Joseph – Gen.41:38; Joshua – Num.27:18;
    Saul – 1 Sam.10:9,10; David – 1 Sam.16:13 etc.). The Spirit’s indwelling
     was specifically related to enabling someone to do a particular task. The
    Holy Spirit could cease to indwell a person because of their disobedience.
    The Spirit left Saul (1 Sam.16:14). When David sinned he pled that the Spirit
     not be taken from him (Psalm 51:11).
    E. He was the empowering Agent in Christ’s earthly life.
      1. He was the Agent of Christ’s virgin birth (Luke 1:35).
      2. He empowered Christ’s ministry (Matt.12:28; Luke 4:1,18).
      3. He was the Agent of Christ’s resurrection (Rom.1:4; 8:11).

IV. The Holy Spirit’s role in the Church Age
    A. He is central in salvation (How people are saved).
      1. He directs and enables evangelistic efforts
       (Philip/Ethiopian – Acts 8:26,29; Great Commission – Acts 1:8).
      2. He convicts the unbeliever of sin (John 16:8-11).
      3. He regenerates (saves) the person.
        a. He cleanses the person from sin and gives them
         the new nature (Titus 3:5).
        b. As He performs this spiritual “new birth,” the person
         enters “the kingdom of God” (=eternal life – John 3:3-7,16).
      4. He seals the person. The presence of the Holy Spirit is the
      “seal” or guarantee that a person is saved and will remain saved
       unless he chooses otherwise (Eph.1:13).
      5. He baptizes (places) the person into the body of Christ.

      • - Note: Exceptions – On the Day of Pentecost when the church age
         began, both new and existing believers were baptized by the Spirit
        Acts 1:5; 11:15,16). Also in 2 other cases in the early church it
         seems the Spirit was not given to believers until an apostle was
         present (
        Acts 8:14-17; 19:1-6).
    B. He is central in sanctification (How saved people grow).
      1. He indwells believers.
        a. The Spirit indwells all believers who have asked him
         to(Rom.5:5; 8:9; 1 Cor.3:16; 6:19)
         (unlike the Old Testament where the Spirit indwelt some)
        c. The Spirit’s indwelling is the basis for His other
         ministries in believer’s lives. (He teaches/illumines us
        about scripture – John 16:13; He aids in prayer
         – Rom.8:26; He assures us of our salvation
         – Rom.8:16; He enables us to grow – see “filling” below
         – Eph.5:18).

        - Spiritual growth us a issue of control. We are either
         controlled by our self-centered flesh or by the Holy Spirit
         who indwells us (Rom.8:4-11; Gal.5:16,17). Ephesians 5:18
         describes this controlling/empowering ministry of Spirit as
         the “filling” of the Spirit. “Filling” is a metaphor (picture) of
         control. We can be filled/controlled by fleshly desires
         (like alcohol) or be filled/controlled by the Spirit (Eph.5:18)
        - Although it’s the Spirit’s power that is at work, the
         believer must choose to be controlled/empowered by the
         Spirit. It is a command to “Be filled” and likewise to
         “Walk in the Spirit” (Gal.5:16). The Spirit’s presence
         is permanent (indwelling) but we must repeatedly choose
         to yield to God to experience the Spirit’s transforming
         power to change and grow us (filling). In actual experience,
         “walking in the Spirit” or “being filled with the Spirit”
         means living the Christian life (facing temptations,
         making decisions, etc.) with a conscious dependence
         on the Holy Spirit. He is the one who enable us –
        producing godly “fruits” (Gal.5:22,23)
      3. He gives spiritual gifts to believers.
        a. Where do I find out about spiritual gifts?
         Four key passages describe spiritual gifts:
        Romans 12:3-81 Corinthians 12Ephesians 4:7-161 Peter 4:10,11.
        b. What are spiritual gifts?
          1) Definition: Spiritual gifts are God-given abilities
           to serve. The Greek word for spiritual gift (charisma)
           is a form of the word “grace.” So these special
           abilities are privileges. God graciously enables all
           believers to serve in spiritual ministry.
          2) Spiritual gifts are not particular positions.
           Youth ministry leader or nursery worker are not gifts
           although those ministries definitely can put to use
           spiritual gifts such as teaching, serving, etc.
          3) Spiritual gifts are not the same as
           natural talent (music ability or mechanical aptitude, etc
          although God may often give spiritual gifts that make
           use of natural abilities. A musician may have the
          gift of encouragement. An experienced school teacher
           may have the gift of teaching, etc.
        c. How do we get spiritual gifts?
          1) The Giver – The Holy Spirit in particular
           imparts these special abilities (1 Cor.12:7-11)
          But it is also accurate to say that they are
           “Christ’s gifts” to the church (Eph.4:7,8,10).
          3) The Recipients – Each believer has at least
           one but perhaps several gifts.
        d. What is the purpose of spiritual gifts?
          1) Spiritual gifts accomplish spiritual ministry that God desires.
          2) Spiritual gifts equip others to minister (Eph.4:12).
          3) Spiritual gifts glorify God (1 Pet.4:11).
        e. What are the different spiritual gifts?
          1) Some of the gifts served to establish the early church
           and to verify the gospel to people as Christianity began
          (Eph.2:20; Heb.2:3,4 
          Gifts included apostleship, healing, miracle-working,
          tongues, interpretation of tongues, the word of wisdom,
           word of knowledge, and prophecy – by which God gave
           direct revelation to man. These gifts were needed to establish the church. They were also seemingly the gifts needed to write the New Testament.
Some feel these gifts were temporary but there is no sound scripture to prove
 that idea.

In fact on the day of Pentecost when Peter preached, he said that these gifts
 were the ones mentioned in Joel and were for everyone .... all nations ,,,, all flesh

Act 2:16-21  But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel:
  (17)  "And it shall be in the last days, says God, I will pour out of My Spirit
 upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your
 young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams
(18)  And in those days I will pour out My Spirit upon My slaves and My slave women,
 and they shall prophesy.  (19)  And I will give wonders in the heaven above, and
 miracles on the earth below, blood and fire and vapor of smoke.  (20)  The sun
 shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and
 glorious Day of the Lord.  (21)  And it shall be that everyone who shall call upon
 the name of the Lord shall be saved."

    Compare several versions here.

    (KJV)  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 

    (KJV+)  AndG2532 it shall come to passG2071 inG1722 theG3588 lastG2078 days,G2250 saithG3004 God,G2316 I will pour outG1632 ofG575 myG3450 SpiritG4151 uponG1909 allG3956 flesh:G4561 andG2532 yourG5216 sonsG5207 andG2532 yourG5216 daughtersG2364 shall prophesy,G4395 andG2532 yourG5216 young menG3495 shall seeG3700 visions,G3706 andG2532 yourG5216 old menG4245 shall dreamG1797 dreams:G1798 

    (LITV)  "And it shall be" in the last days, God says, "I will pour from My Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy;" "and your young men shall see visions," "and your old men shall dream dreams;" 

    (MKJV)  "And it shall be in the last days, says God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh. And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. 

    (YLT)  And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; 

     Some Questions:

    • When was the Spirit to be poured out?
    • Upon who will the Spirit be poured?
    • What does "all flesh" mean?
    • Does all flesh mean every individual?
    • What does "all flesh" mean?
    • What will happen with your "sons and daughters"?
    • Will happen with the "young men"?
    • Will will happen with the "old men"?
    Are we nearing the last days?
    Did the apostles think that the last days were soon approaching?

    Some believe the gifts disappeared because they were not necessary after the Bible was written.

    But what are the gifts for? [Office gifts]
    Rom 12:6-8  Then having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, if prophecy, according to the proportion of faith;  (7)  or ministry, in the ministry; or he who teaches, in the teaching;  (8)  or he who exhorts, in the encouragement; or he who shares, in simplicity; or he who takes the lead, in diligence; or he who shows mercy, in cheerfulness.

    What were these gifts for?

    1Co 12:1-13  Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I would not have you ignorant.  (2)  You know that being led away, you nations were led to dumb idols.  (3)  Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says Jesus is a curse, and that no one can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.  (4)  But there are differences of gifts, but the same Spirit.  (5)  And there are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.  (6)  And there are differences of workings, but it is the same God working all things in all.  

    (7)  But to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.  (8)  For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;  (9)  and to another faith by the same Spirit; and to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;  (10)  and to another workings of powers, to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; and to another kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues.

     (11)  But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each one as He desires.  (12)  For as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.  (13)  For also by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free, even all were made to drink into one Spirit.
     What does this passage say about gifts?

    • different?
    • same God?
    • for our profit?
    • word of wisdom? Have you ever felt you needed a word of wisdom from God?
    • word of knowledge? Have you ever felt you needed a word of knowledge from God? 
    • Have you ever needed to discern spirits? [of a group or people in a group?]
    • Have you ever needed faith to pray for someone or to do something you think God wants you to do?
    • Have you ever been used to pray for someone and they got healed? 
    • Did you ever need to be healed?
    • Have you ever felt God was telling you something that you or a group needed to hear? 
    • Have you ever excercised the gift of speaking in tongues?
    • Have you exercised the gift of interpretation of tongues?
    • Where do ALL of these gifts come from?
    • Would these gifts help in the church of today? Did they help in the book of Acts?
    • So why do different people have different gifts?
    • Where do they ALL come from?
    • Is the Holy Spirit still alive or did he die?
    • Can he give you a gift today to minister to yourself or others?

    ON a personal note sometimes the Holy Spirit has given me various gifts to help others usually. They are never "my gifts". They are always His. Notice what the verses say above .... here they are again ...

    (4)  But there are differences of gifts, but the same Spirit.  (5)  And there are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.  (6)  And there are differences of workings, but it is the same God working all things in all. (7)  But to each one is given the showing forth of the Spirit to our profit.  (8)  For through the Spirit is given ......
    (11)  But the one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing separately to each one as He desires. 

    One gift, discerning of spirits is very important when you are with a group of people or you are reading what they wrote. Discerning spirits will help you read between the lines whether oral or written to help determine the purpose of the writing or the speaking.

    Since I am sure you agree the Holy Spirit did not die and the church STILL needs help, why would he deny gifts to the church which are necessary to help the body of Christ function together the way your own body does?

    Do you think the body of Christ acts as a unified body now?
    If not, why do you think it does not?

    I suspect that sometimes if one does not listen to the Spirit's promptings, we may instead react with our emotions in a soulish way instead of by the Spirit.  

    AS you see by these verses the gifts DO NOT bring division and strife but UNITY. They make Christ's body work as one unified force.

    I do not believe that is unifying anything but rather causing division in the body. Therefore I do not believe it is written by the Spirit's prompting. I can be wrong. I have been wrong before. 

    If you read various posts on the forum, do they serve to unify the body of Christ or make divisions that cause bad feelings and grief between various parts of the body of Christ?

    And yet what does the Bible say, the Spirit brings [above]?

    Could it be that Vicky and others on the forum have reacted to events they see in the world instead of following the Spirit's leading?

    When the Spirit leads, what effect should be caused?

    God bless you.

    P.S. Obviously much research and scholarship has gone into the site but does it edify the body of Christ? Or does it lift up the one segment of the body of Christ that the forum owner is part of? 

    Is it possible that Vicky and her elite group is right and everyone else who disagrees is wrong? Of course!

    Is it possible that some visitors are right about some things but the forum leaders do not recognize that? Of course!

    Would God give ALL truth to one website owner and those that help her?

    Do you think there are gifts that the Holy Spirit gives other groups that help unify the body of Christ?

    I certainly agree with the title of website. However I do not think we seek God through listening to ONE group and omitting other Christian groups which are part of the body of Christ as well.

    That seems to be the point of the verses we have read above.
    God bless you 

    Seek God but not exclusively through a forum written by a small group. They are NOT the body of Christ. If they are Christians, then they are only a small part of it.

    See the largest Christian church in the world in Korea here.

    More here.

    Or the actual church website here.

    By their fruit you shall know them ....
    [See the bottom of the page to see ministries of the church.]

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